<![CDATA[The Third View]]>The Third View is a podcast about change at the system level: what is actually happening when an industry inverts, a political order collapses, or a business model becomes obsolete overnight. Not what we should feel about it. What the structure of it is, and what it makes possible.

Every two weeks, Erik de Ruijter, Janne Brok and Manasi Kumbhat apply their framework of radical systems level change to one complex system: politics, business, or society. The framework comes from their book If Not This, Then What? (Bureau WO, 2025). The conversations go further.

If you think in systems, this is your show.

]]>https://riverside.comRiverside.fm (https://riverside.com)Tue, 16 Jun 2026 16:04:59 GMTTue, 24 Mar 2026 15:41:03 GMT60Manasi Kumbhat Janne Brok, Erik de Ruijter<p>The Third View is a podcast about change at the system level: what is actually happening when an industry inverts, a political order collapses, or a business model becomes obsolete overnight. Not what we should feel about it. What the structure of it is, and what it makes possible.<br /><br />Every two weeks, Erik de Ruijter, Janne Brok and Manasi Kumbhat apply their framework of radical systems level change to one complex system: politics, business, or society. The framework comes from their book If Not This, Then What? (Bureau WO, 2025). The conversations go further. <br /></p><p><b><i>If you think in systems, this is your show.</i></b></p>episodicManasi Kumbhat Janne Brok, Erik de Ruijtermanasi.kumbhat@gmail.comno<![CDATA[Mark Rutte can save NATO or keep it alive. Not both.]]>Mark Rutte is spending his political capital convincing Europeans to buy more American weapons, meet spending targets, demonstrate loyalty, keep Trump engaged.  But these attempts at preservation are precisely what will, eventually, lead to him failing at the job.

This week Janne and I discuss our new article on substack (bureauwo.substack.com) where we analyse both the 'zoomed in' detailed NATO reality and the 'zoomed out' context within which it exists: Surprise, surprise... It's fundamentally different to 1949 when NATO was created. And the instinct to preserve NATO as is, is the most dangerous option. The correct move is to change more, not less.

In the episode, we dive deeper into the difference between a vision and a beacon and the reality canvas as a reality mapping tool, and perhaps a self-therapy tool too!

]]>59176c80-8321-4fae-8e91-345aae43b6ddMon, 08 Jun 2026 14:20:12 GMT<p>Mark Rutte is spending his political capital convincing Europeans to buy more American weapons, meet spending targets, demonstrate loyalty, keep Trump engaged.  But these attempts at preservation are precisely what will, eventually, lead to him failing at the job. <br /><br />This week Janne and I discuss our new article on substack (<a rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="http://bureauwo.substack.com" target="_blank">bureauwo.substack.com</a>) where we analyse both the 'zoomed in' detailed NATO reality and the 'zoomed out' context within which it exists: Surprise, surprise... It's fundamentally different to 1949 when NATO was created. And the instinct to preserve NATO as is, is the most dangerous option. The correct move is to change more, not less. <br /><br />In the episode, we dive deeper into the difference between a vision and a beacon and the reality canvas as a reality mapping tool, and perhaps a self-therapy tool too!<br /></p>no00:26:00Mark Rutte can save NATO or keep it alive. Not both.full<![CDATA[Europe doesn't have a growth problem. It has an identity problem.]]>Europe keeps being told it's falling behind. Behind on GDP, behind on the number of unicorns, behind on scale. But four decades of values survey data tell a different story: Europeans consistently choose collective over individual, time over output, quality of life over standard of living.

So why does European economic policy keep following a framework built around the opposite priorities?

In this episode, we discuss what it would actually feel like to build a system, structurally different from the American one. And why the right move won't feel like winning unless we stop using metrics meant to measure progress of a different reality.

]]>2dbbe54e-db00-42b7-a087-b1b7068b2815Sun, 24 May 2026 20:03:38 GMT<p>Europe keeps being told it's falling behind. Behind on GDP, behind on the number of unicorns, behind on scale. But four decades of values survey data tell a different story: Europeans consistently choose collective over individual, time over output, quality of life over standard of living. <br /><br />So why does European economic policy keep following a framework built around the opposite priorities? <br /><br />In this episode, we discuss what it would actually feel like to build a system, structurally different from the American one. And why the right move won't feel like winning unless we <b><i>stop </i></b>using metrics meant to measure progress of a different reality. </p>no00:34:37Europe doesn't have a growth problem. It has an identity problem.full<![CDATA[Don't waste a good crisis]]>In your personal life, you think about the whole. Your household, your relationships, your kids. You don't optimise one part and ignore the rest.

The moment you walk into an organisation, something changes. Suddenly you're responsible for your unit, your budget, your metrics. The whole becomes someone else's problem.

This episode is about that switch: why it happens, what it costs, and whether it's possible to flip it back without waiting for everything to fall apart first. The Swiss watch industry is exhibit A. The UAE leaving OPEC last week is exhibit B. The conversation goes further than both.

you can find the article at bureauwo.substack.com

]]>985ca4f7-d701-4058-b172-860cce65a93cMon, 11 May 2026 11:54:20 GMT<p>In your personal life, you think about the whole. Your household, your relationships, your kids. You don't optimise one part and ignore the rest.<br /></p><p>The moment you walk into an organisation, something changes. Suddenly you're responsible for your unit, your budget, your metrics. The whole becomes someone else's problem.<br /></p><p>This episode is about that switch: why it happens, what it costs, and whether it's possible to flip it back without waiting for everything to fall apart first. The Swiss watch industry is exhibit A. The UAE leaving OPEC last week is exhibit B. The conversation goes further than both.<br /><br />you can find the article at bureauwo.substack.com</p>no00:30:47Don't waste a good crisisfull<![CDATA[Change more, not less]]>Electric vehicles had a 20-year head start in 1900. Serious investment. Fifty manufacturers. They still lost.

In this episode, Erik, Janne and Manasi dig into what that means for anyone trying to do something genuinely new today. Why first mover advantage can be a trap. Why coherence beats being right. And why scale, the thing every organization is racing toward, reliably creates completely new problems.

Find the article on bureauwo.substack.com

]]>cc302c53-0184-4e52-a952-5f6e03817e86Mon, 27 Apr 2026 12:43:02 GMT<p>Electric vehicles had a 20-year head start in 1900. Serious investment. Fifty manufacturers. They still lost.</p><p></p><p>In this episode, Erik, Janne and Manasi dig into what that means for anyone trying to do something genuinely new today. Why first mover advantage can be a trap. Why coherence beats being right. And why scale, the thing every organization is racing toward, reliably creates completely new problems.<br /><br />Find the article on bureauwo.substack.com</p><p></p>no00:32:59Change more, not lessfull<![CDATA[Business is having its systems thinking moment]]>Every company right now is asking: how does AI affect my position? It is a reasonable question. It is just not the important one. The important question is: what are the load-bearing principles that make your current business model possible? It's not your product. It's not your competitive moat. It's the larger system around it.

Based on an article with the same title, published on our substack: bureauwo.substack.com

]]>5a4f1259-fc37-41b8-b3be-3be27d5a2e10Tue, 14 Apr 2026 06:21:14 GMT<p>Every company right now is asking: how does AI affect my position? It is a reasonable question. It is just not the important one. The important question is: what are the load-bearing principles that make your current business model possible? It's not your product. It's not your competitive moat. It's the larger system around it.<br /><br />Based on an article with the same title, published on our substack: bureauwo.substack.com</p><p></p>no00:26:54Business is having its systems thinking momentfull<![CDATA[The Hidden Logic Behind Trump's Chaos]]>Most conversations about change give you two options: fix what's broken, or aim for something better. But what if the system itself needs to be inverted? That is what the third view is about. Each episode we take something complex, break it down into its foundational principles, that we call ‘essences’ and ask: what becomes possible once they are inverted?

We published a Substack article arguing that Trump's chaos is not random. Most people are trying to understand him through one of two lenses: either, like other presidents,  he is incrementally fixing what's broken (and thats confusing because its obviously not working!), or he is charging toward some vision of MAGA destination. We think both of those lenses miss what's actually happening. What Trump is doing,  is a third thing: he is systematically inverting the load-bearing principles of the old reality. Not moving toward a new one necessarily, just dismantling the architecture of the existing one. Every action that looks erratic follows the same logic: take whatever the old reality depended on, and fundamentally change it. The article maps exactly which principles are being inverted and asks: what becomes possible in the space that opens up? That is what we are going to build on today.

]]>227500dc-caac-4b39-a91f-b939a149d781Tue, 31 Mar 2026 08:24:04 GMT<p><i>Most conversations about change give you two options: fix what's broken, or aim for something better. But what if the system itself needs to be inverted? That is what the third view is about. Each episode we take something complex, break it down into its foundational principles, that we call ‘essences’ and ask: what becomes possible once they are inverted?<br /></i><b><br /></b><i>We published a </i><a rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" href="https://bureauwo.substack.com/p/the-hidden-logic-behind-trumps-chaos?r=61v7ie" target="_blank"><i>Substack article</i></a><i> arguing that Trump's chaos is not random. Most people are trying to understand him through one of two lenses: either, like other presidents,  he is incrementally fixing what's broken (and thats confusing because its obviously not working!), or he is charging toward some vision of MAGA destination. We think both of those lenses miss what's actually happening. What Trump is doing,  is a third thing: he is systematically inverting the load-bearing principles of the old reality. Not moving toward a new one necessarily, just dismantling the architecture of the existing one. Every action that looks erratic follows the same logic: take whatever the old reality depended on, and fundamentally change it. The article maps exactly which principles are being inverted and asks: what becomes possible in the space that opens up? That is what we are going to build on today.</i><b><br /></b></p>no00:27:28The Hidden Logic Behind Trump's Chaosfull